Jason Hickel and Yanis Varoufakis | A VISION FOR THE FUTURE | Podcast 8

50:10 "If you don't have movements in place that are ready to have a real struggle over the fair allocation of resources then you're in trouble."

Political sociopaths require hierarchy to manage the conflict they create with their abuse and exploitation. Economic hierarchy is the most powerful in that it keeps the causal agents aloof, to a greater extent, from the conflict they create, with the use of proxies.

🎯 Key points for quick navigation:

00:01 🎙 Capitalism and the ecological crisis: Democracy as the solution

The system is inherently anti-democratic and totalitarian, as the 1% control production and resources for profit accumulation.

We are effectively prevented from addressing the ecological crisis due to the prioritization of profit over ecological needs.

This system also perpetuates social crises, like inadequate healthcare and housing, as resources are not directed towards fulfilling basic human needs.

06:05 🎭 Hypocrisy of the Green parties: Actions speak louder than words

Green parties in power, like the German Greens, fail to live up to their environmental claims.

Their policies often contradict their rhetoric, perpetuating environmental damage and supporting war.

They are unwilling to address the root cause of the problems due to a fear of the implications for their existing economic system.

09:10 📈 Growth imperative of capitalism: Incompatible with ecological goals

Continuous growth is fundamentally at odds with achieving Paris Agreement climate goals and reducing material consumption.

While some decoupling of GDP from CO2 emissions has occurred, it is not happening at a rate fast enough to prevent catastrophic climate change.

The need for perpetual growth to stabilize accumulation and prevent economic instability makes it impossible for capitalism to prioritize ecological wellbeing.

16:33 🤖 Automation, growth and the creation of artificial needs

Automation and artificial intelligence create a situation where jobs are lost, but instead of reducing working hours, new needs are created to absorb the displaced labor.

These new needs are often artificial and result in increased production and resource depletion.

This leads to a society that is constantly working but achieving less, creating a perverse cycle of inefficient growth.

21:23 🧰 The need for centralized planning and resource mobilization

During wartime, efficient resource allocation is achieved through centralized planning rather than market forces.

This demonstrates that a shift away from the profit motive is necessary to effectively tackle ecological and social crises.

We need to mobilize our resources for a different goal, as the profit motive has consistently failed to address the challenges we face.

22:49 📊 Debunking green growth: Decoupling limitations

Even in the most optimistic scenarios, decoupling economic growth (measured in dollars) from ecological decline takes centuries, time we don't have.

It is unlikely that we can decouple the creation of value from resource depletion due to the inherent nature of growth and economic expansion.

The flawed logic of green growth relies on the assumption that we can indefinitely extract resources without significant negative consequences on the planet.

24:36 📊 GDP is a flawed measure of progress

GDP is bad because it gives no consideration to the impact of production on societal well-being,

Countries with high GDP can still have low levels of well-being, particularly in areas such as healthcare, education, and housing affordability.

28:18 🗳 Democratic control over production is essential

Citizens' Assemblies in Europe show that people can agree on prioritizing production for social and environmental well-being over profit-driven production,

This process may require scaling down destructive sectors like SUVs, private jets, and industrial beef.

30:31 🌎 The case for degrowth

The Aboriginal people of Australia provide a stark example of how economic growth can be destructive to well-being and that GDP is not a good metric for human prosperity,

Degrowth is not a return to a pre-capitalist mode of production but a necessity in a system that relies on capital accumulation and growth to maintain itself.

40:11 💸 Democratizing finance

If corporations were democratized and a digital wallet provided by the central bank to every resident, the financial sector would effectively be dismantled,

This would eliminate the private sector's control over money creation and distribution, enabling more equitable and sustainable investment decisions.

42:46 💣 Degrowth and the geopolitical arms race

Capitalism is the major driver of conflict and war, particularly in the Global South,

A transition to a post-capitalist, post-growth economy would significantly reduce the need for conflict and imperialism,

A degrowth treaty would help facilitate a cooperative global transition.

48:28 ⚙ Capital's shift from concessions to exploitation

Capitalism's resistance to concessions for labor,

The shift towards exploitation of peripheral economies,

Concession of consumption goods as a compromise.

49:53 🤺 The need for renewed class conflict

The necessity of re-establishing class conflict,

The importance of democratic socialist movements,

The inevitable struggle over resource allocation

50:33 🥑 Climate change and resource disparity

The example of Spain's olive oil crisis as a microcosm of resource unevenness,

The importance of movements for fair resource allocation in the face of climate change,

The need for a global perspective on worker exploitation

51:29 🇺🇸 The US working class and its struggles

The working class in the US faces significant hardship,

The exploitation and deprivation experienced by the working class,

The need to understand the global context of this exploitation

53:02 🗺 The global effects of imperialism

The transportation of poverty from the global South to the core economies,

The uneven distribution of wealth and resources,

The manifestation of these issues worldwide.

53:42 🇬🇧 The dystopia of the UK

The stark contrast of wealth and poverty in the UK,

The depravity of the British ruling class,

The consequences of centuries of colonial plunder.

55:01 🎥 The profit motive in desperation

The systemic exploitation of desperation,

The intentional creation of poverty for profit,

The lack of awareness and guilt among the ruling class.

57:04 💰 The cynicism of the wealthy

The strategies used to keep people desperate for centuries,

The hypocrisy of wealthy individuals demanding higher taxes on themselves,

The system's ability to disincentivize genuine change.

57:58 🏠 The Enclosure movement and its motives

The historic context of the enclosure movement,

The motivations behind the enclosure movement,

The absence of awareness of the consequences of enclosure.

59:36 👷 The false narrative of capitalist benefits

The belief among capitalist functionaries that they are doing good,

The intent to abolish the commons,

The deliberate deprivation of resources to force people into wage labor.

24:23 🌿 Probleme der Wohlstandsmessung durch BIP
– BIP als unzureichender Indikator für menschliches Wohlbefinden,
– Misst Wirtschaftsproduktion ohne Berücksichtigung des sozialen und ökologischen Nutzens,
– Gleichwertigkeit unterschiedlicher Güter im BIP trotz unterschiedlicher sozialer Auswirkungen.
26:42 🏭 Umgestaltung der Produktion für ökologische Ziele
– Notwendigkeit der Reduzierung bestimmter Produktionen in einer ökologischen Krise,
– Investition in gemeinnützige und ökologisch nachhaltige Güter,
– Politische Maßnahmen können die Verfügbarkeit von Ressourcen wie Wohnraum verbessern.
29:38 📉 Grenzen des Wachstums und globale Ungleichheit
– Globale Wachstumsgrenzen führen zur Neubewertung ökonomischer Metriken und Prioritäten,
– Historische und politische Auswirkungen des BIP auf die globale Ungleichheit,
– Wachstumsstrategien als Mittel zur Vermeidung globaler Konflikte.
34:09 🌍 Kritik am kapitalistischen System und Vorschläge für eine sozialistische Neugestaltung
– Kapitalismus fördert ungleiche Wohlstandsverteilung und ökologische Schäden,
– Möglichkeiten einer demokratischen und ökologischen Umstrukturierung der Wirtschaft,
– Bedeutung von Finanzdemokratie und demokratischer Kontrolle über produktive Ressourcen.
39:14 💡 Zukünftige Visionen einer demokratischen und nachhaltigen Wirtschaft
– Vorschläge zur Demokratisierung der Unternehmensführung und Finanzwirtschaft,
– Potential für technologische Unterstützung einer effizienteren und gerechteren Ressourcenverteilung,
– Die Rolle der öffentlichen Hand bei der Geldschöpfung und im Zahlungsverkehr.
42:46 ⚔️ Geopolitik eines Post-Wachstums-Szenarios
– Einfluss von Kapitalismus und Wachstumszwängen auf globale Konflikte,
– Strategien zur Reduzierung von Imperialismus und Förderung von nationaler Souveränität,
– Mögliche internationale Kooperationen zur gemeinsamen Reduzierung der Produktion und Ressourcennutzung.

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30:30 Very interesting example by Varoufakis from the history about the delusional GDP measure: Much better lives of Australian aborigines with zero GDP as Captain Cook discovered them with dismay. This example should remind us that nature is the primary producer, and modern industrial human tries to replace biological automation (i.e. living technologies of nature) by mechanical automation (i.e. mechanistic nonliving technologies of human) just because mechanistic human technologies are more profitable for Big Money. See Ecosystem Mutilation and Patching Business

All is well ❤ Let love lead😊

When i was a kid i used to hate israel , now i hate america

We need an open, good faith informal debate/discussion between Jason + Yanis and someone who disagrees with them. It’s the only way to find the faults with these theories we find so appealing as those of a leftist inclination. It’s the only way we can actually be convinced of them enough to take action as a society.

Capitalism has the first-mover advantage when it comes to creature comforts atleast in recent memory.

Cynicism. Misspelled above!

Yes… states giving credit creation to private banks show you who is in power: thet richest ten percent bourgeoisie. That is a prime exampel of class criminality. And it should be criminalised as such.

Thank you all three, a most interesting discussion and question time. Two excellent guests and intelligent questions and prompts from Raoul Martinez.

Yep. The rich are obsolete.

Great interview!!

Moving from market capitalism to socialism or communism is like playing russian roulette, when a system of life is put into question on deep fundamental issues then it invites an alternative system of life that would work for the common people. Having said that i have always been asking myself why most western academics have ignored islam as a system that produced a civilization that was unmatched and could easily replace any system of life overnight!

Degrowthest is not a word 30:20

“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.”

― Edward Abbey, The Journey Home: Some Words in Defense of the American West

The enclosures is such an obvious case of the elite and powerful directly stealing from the many. They absolutely knew what they were doing and the idea that it was just some unfortunate series of circumstances is painfully naive. Read about the poor and vagrants laws that attended these acts. It's very apparent there was a deliberate action to enrich the landlords not based on necessity except the perceived need to keep up with the spanish who had colonial wealth. This was shameless exploitation and the social commentary that was present at the time would have made this clear to any ignorant noble.

"There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning." – Warren Buffett

How i wish a 100th of this wisom could gain track in the US

not that it is efficient but unjust, but that it is inefficient and therefore unjust!!!!!!

These feudal mafioso system exist since millinairies and today practiced by those which ancesters were SLAVES because all these useless jobs without responsability provide wealth and power in collaboration with the ugly financial den occupiers instead of defending the people

Scientists are approving deadly chemicals in our food flat out lies about food pyramid. We are obese, diabetic, heart disease but mostly WEAK. This is real!!!!! Happening now!!!! But these elites distract you from this with climate, rights Etc. It would be a different world if we all ate healthy and were strong vice fat and weak.