Dungeon Meshi was my favourite present of the earlier season, with its excessive consideration to element, and enjoyable tackle dungeon delving via a culinary and ecological lens. However do you know… that quite a lot of principal characters within the present… are autistic (optimistic)? Fully seperate from the gross sales pitch of the present, DM is ALSO a extremely nuanced and full depiction of a number of forms of autism, and this can be a video exploring the autistic illustration discovered inside the present. It merely blew me away once I was watching it, and hopefully you may both agree or discover one thing new to understand inside the depths of the King’s Dungeon.
!!!!!!!WARNING!!!!!!!
Oftentimes, neurodivergent analysis has an ideological bend to it, which causes an implicit bias within the analysis, author, or recipient of the analysis. Some individuals see autism as a illness, others a incapacity, and but others only a neurological situation, and every of those statements comes with a great deal of assumed which means. I attempted to vet the sources of data to verify they weren’t “unhealthy” (for my part), however I’m not excellent. If a supply is anti-autistic peoples or has some problematic beliefs, kindly let me know, or e-mail me, or assume that somebody earlier than you seemingly already did so, given how MANY individuals are on YouTube. Once more, I’m one man, doing my greatest, and I actually did attempt, I promise.
Anyway:
Writings Referenced within the Video
Why Many Autistic Women are Neglected – written by Beth Arky, with consultants Wendy Nash, MD and Susan F. Epstein, PhD – https://childmind.org/article/autistic-girls-overlooked-undiagnosed-autism/
Is There a Bias Towards Males within the Prognosis of Autism? A Systematic Assessment and Meta-Evaluation – written by Sara Cruz, Sabela Conde-Pumpido Zubizarreta, Ana Daniela Costa, and seven others – https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11065-023-09630-2#Sec16
Understanding undiagnosed autism in grownup females – uclahealth – https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/understanding-undiagnosed-autism-adult-females
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:01 Dungeon Meshi
03:55 Laios is autistic
06:38 A stereotypical, however empathetic depiction of autism
09:04 Kabru is autistic, too
12:23 Masking
16:23 The fist combat
17:54 Tradition and Neurodivergency
19:10 A Frequent Autistic L
21:07 Illustration
22:54 Falin is autistic additionally
24:55 Gender and Neurodivergency
26:59 Conclusion
My pretty patrons:
Gavin Davis
Mushroom-Bagel-Bites
coffeeee
mercymain
Geneva
Da Chowda
Large Cheddar
Rowan Ellis
dingga
gerberli
Autogyro
Bonus Jonas
Michal
Lexa Rider
Eli
Lazar
DSCota
Ian Fisch
Dakota-Mangum-Turner
source
i have a BIG PROBLEM with Dungeon Meshi … IM OBSESS with it ! Like too much.. And my kids are worst than me… I screwed myself in full happyness 2 days ago thinking they have anonce the saisons 2 trailers and… then i cried because it was not an annonce just a speculation video… and the i laugh at myself… oh and im adhd and probably have a bit of tism too..
Both the male and female leads of Godzilla: Singular Point are autistic (Yun Arikawa and Mei Kamino). Junichi (and arguably Boco) in Gamera Rebirth is very clearly coded as autistic and she's actually allowed to be without having to mask. Shinjiro Hayata and Da Moroboshi from the 2019 Ultraman anime seem to be autism coded.
20:35 (ish) for context
I have been that friend as someone who is autistic. It reminds me of the term "Double Cassandra Syndrome". It's where NT and Autistic don't understand each other. It's called that because of Cassandra was a priestess that Apollo cursed to be always right (or most of the time right) but never believed. In this context/use, it means autistic people can't understand NT people, and NT people can't understand autistic people.
(Personal stuff starts here)
I've had one really big event that's in situation of the timestamp.
I had a best friend (R) who was really nice, had similar interests to me, and could hang with me a lot, but she had some massive flaws. Two of which were that she would go radio silent to me for weeks at a time when other friends of the group could talk to her, even confused when i mentioned she hadn't talked to me in several days and that she refused to listen to my struggles when she would talk about her's all the time. After about 2 months of peace, my other best friend, E in the group had a HUGE fight with her and I was supposed to play the neutral party because they both knew me pretty well and I cared deeply for both of them. This resulted in me having a much worse relationship with R and a slightly better relationship with E. So R let out the true colours that she had been very slowly letting out before that point. In late-ish 2023, i HAD to block her because I couldn't put up with being pushed around and i realised she never was ny friend at all. I was just a voice she could talk to about things that should been talked about with someone who could help.
Excellent analysis, I love this show. The main reason for me is that it represents a side of tabletop rpg play that isn't well communicated in most live-play shows: team and procedural play. The party that goes back down after Falin are a tight and supportive group, not a bunch of theatre-hacks grandstanding for closeups and making non-sequitur jokes that come from outside the scene (gagging). What I mean by 'procedure' is the same as a 'police procedural': I ate Dungeon Meshi up because it was a team of ordinary-strength people engaging and disassembling problems logically despite the danger to life and limb. This is my favourite aspect of TTRPGs: despite the game being run for you to succeed and have a good time, you can also be good at it and pull apart problems by analysing them quickly and acting fast on that information to succeed, using as few resources as possible. Player skill.
That it also communicates and centres autistic experiences is something I saw but didn't realise, thank you for revealing DM to be even cooler than I previously thought 🙂
i love my silly 2d autistic ppl theyre just like me frfr
Always support neurodivergent content. Perfect.
12:18
Kabru is almost textbook 'psychopathic'. He's got the aspd vibes. Shuro is just aggressively Japanese, they expect you to read minds.
I though of something what if kabru is subconsciously jealous that he doesn't mask and thats why he hates them just a thought mayne not true but just a thought
I am glad my thoughts on Kabru being Autistic is not far off, I love his character, but at the same time I also avoid people like him because "Having a close twin of my personality probably isn't a good idea"
I think in addition to pointing out that fallin's social approval is contextual (her classmates hate her), it's also worth pointing out that, her attractiveness is more fetishization than true connection. The manic pixie dream girl exists to be consumed. What are the chances that if shuro actually did marry fallin, and her excentricities became his responsibility rather than his fascination, he would retain the same patience with her. Suddenly her inability to perform her fairly rigid role as the wife of an eastern aristocrat would be a problem.
He's also completely oblivious to there being no interest back. They have zero chemistry because he treats her like a china doll. Oh her love of bugs is so quaint but does he share it? Value it as real knowledge? Or is it just a cutesy girl thing.
As an autistic woman, there are two pieces of violence in this scene. The betrayal you feel as laios finding a friend wasn't really a friend. And the discomfort of a man pursuing you who litterally doesn't even see you for who you are. A man who hates both your loved ones and the traits you share with said loved ones. It's dehumanising. An extra layer of objectification on top of the usual "man persues woman despite zero signs of interest". It's not the gut punch that laios's wound is, but it is insidious. And much like fallin many of us a) don't know how to say no, b) don't realise the dudes intentions until way too late in the game c) end up going along with things we do NOT want due to a mixture of surprise, empathy and a lack of scripts for saying no.
Also I love kabru and yes you're so right about him but also if he hurts my baby laios imma be so mad (and it seems kinda inevitable).
Also Marcelle is what I'd call a NT passing ND (which is a little different from masking). She fits in with the NT "way things are done" so she passes as NT without too much masking. But she struggles with change, she's frightened of new foods, she succeeds academically while sometimes lacking common sense (though to a lesser degree than the others) and she objects to things not because "laios you're a freak and I'm going to disengage with you socially" but because "but that's not how things are DONE laios you are breaking the RULES". she's a samefood autistic with a special interest in magic and with gaining social capital indirectly via the status afforded to academics rather than by her social skills. But then she meets a neurokin (fallin) and basically instantly forgets her studies to be with her new soulmate
kabru is an idiot. they completely got totaled by the dungeon once and still thinks hes the mastermind
I have watched this video countless times! I love it!
10:59 it is also important to note that this and many other social anxiety related symptoms that are commonplace in ASD can also be caused by very hostile environments during childhood, where there's an inherent fear that you'll do things wrong and be judged for it, even when you think you know the etiquette or norms. People in these situations can also develop masking to of necessity due to fear of provoking a negative reaction. I am no specialist, but I've read that CPTSD which can be caused by these kinds of environments can share a lot of symptoms with ASD and ASPD.
Also, regarding Falins more "quiet" expression of those traits. As an autistic woman myself, that is usually still me masking, and people find those "quirky" Interests quite appealing until you STOP doing that (aka when I felt truly safe), only to then be rejected because it is "too weird". I USUALLY DONT COMMENT BUT THE ENTIRE ANALYSIS OF AUTISM IN WOMEN MADE ME CRY SO I HAD TO LET MY FEELINGS OUT
"Hey, can I stay home from work today? I have a severe medical condition called being eaten by a dragon…"
imo even shuro can count under high functioning. like HIGH HIGH functioning.
as a child i was a very high functioning autistic, my assessments came up with only ADD.
my favorite perspective of the laios debaucle, is that shuro masks so well that he does not inherently put it on. it takes effort to remove it because it is more comfortable to act one way.
the cultural layer flips this on its head.
laios, a western man, cannot detect subtle cues. toshiro, an eastern man, was raised in a culture where subtlety is above all else. he cannot take subtle cues either. being around autistic people as an autistic person is something that is difficult when one of them is a very, very masked autistic person with an upbringing where there are explicit social norms, arguably the one thing that is direct, the rules. and one that has slipped through the cracks and has very poor social observation. similar to how kabru interacts with laios, but add more tinfoil and societal expectations and you have shuro. kabru is a middle ground with astute observational skills and very advanced masking. laios is just exhibit A of autism, pronounced social idiosyncrasies and unrestrained demonstration of special interests.
think of shuro as the type which often results in girls being lost to the system. you learn, not adapt. you have expectations that must be adhered to, and sometimes your autistic mannerisms fit the bill like a glove.
it's possible to learn adequate skills like social cues (subtlety) while having inherent behaviors which are just engrained like a lack of reception to subtlety yourself or being extremely attached to something, or someone. maybe it's just the burnt out female autistic in me, but i just get that autism feeling when shuro is on screen like i do with kabru, laios and falin. very poorly articulated so bear with me for sounding really dumb 🙇♀️
Kabru was a character that took a while for me to warm up to, until I realized why I didn’t like him: He was all the worst traits I saw in my younger self.
I grew up high-functioning in a culture that generally preferred to pretend “The A Word” did not exist. It was never explained to me, and in fact I did not get diagnosed until much much later in life when I was on my own, but I just took it at face value that everyone felt the same weird social disconnect I did, and therefore everyone had the same “moral obligation” that I did in order to master social behaviors to “fit in”. After all, no one else seemed to be struggling with it, so clearly they were just that good at mastering this skill that obviously all humans obviously had to meticulously develop like I did through careful study and planning. Like normal humans do.
However, never having autism properly explained to me meant that I grew to have an outright distaste for those with the same social disconnect who I perceived as not putting in the same work that I was to “make it work” anyway. There was a boy in my class with a more severe form of autism, and I realized years after the fact that my attitude towards him was incredibly cruel and unfair to someone who felt the same disconnect that I did and simply didn’t push to fake it the way I did. It’s something I’m still beating myself up for well over a decade later, it’s something I have strived so hard to put behind me, and it’s the exact reason I hated Kabru at first: he just like me frfr
THE OWL HOUSE ‼️‼️‼️‼️
Im AFAB and my mom realized a DAY after i came out as nonbinary that i was autistic all my life, because she finally took the gendered lens off and saw all my traits as they were. Im happier now, being able to unmask comfortably and not be misconstrued as rude or standoffish but rather being seen as a little tired or uninterested. Im less embarassed about being emotional and more aware of what my emotions even are, all because i was seen as "an autistic person" rather than "a strange, weird girl"
Im bitter sometimes when i compare my upbringing to my brother's, who was diagnosed and recognized at a very young age. I had to wait until i had manually dug out my own soul to look at it and feel its shape and find it different than those around me before someone else could even take notice.
Anyway I'm Falon. People love and adore me but didnt know i was autistic because me being weird was cute, and being cute is just that. Cute. Nothing else
6 minutes in and I felt this in my soul
i finally watched dungeon meshi, having saved this video to come back to once i did, and i loved both!! i also saw so much of my autistic self in Laios, Fallin, and even some of the other characters too. I related to Marcille and especially Izutsumi's difficulties with food, to Chilchuck's overbearingness around his area of expertise, and to Senshi in some ways too. I wouldn't say any of those characters are necessarily autistic, but i still really appreciated those traits being represented 🙂
Shuro is kinda stupid i mean who proposes before confessing their love and just because his part of the world does the social interaction with subtlety dosent mean that its the same in the rest of the world and he is really stupid for thinking that falin would leave her own brother behind to go with him to his home country
I feel like one of f the reasons social cues/combat became Kabru's interest is bc it was required for survival. He was taken by oppressive Elves who could turn on him at any moment if he wasn't careful.
Falin has been my "They're literally me" character lately ever since I watched Dungeon Meshi the first time. Though I am not officially diagnosed as autistic I have done plenty of research and inward examination of my symptoms as well as being "peer reviewed" as autistic by all my actually diagnosed friends, I would like to vouch for Falin being autistic from an AFAB perspective. specifically when it showed her school years it immediately set off the little flag in my head. her spending her time alone and preferring to be surrounded by nature. doing projects her own way through her way of understanding. being viewed as weird by her classmates but excelling in school. her loneliness while growing up. her keen interest of harmony. And then in general as she's shown with a strong desire to help people no matter what from the ghost possessing the deceased adventurer to trying to heal Marcille even though Falin herself was still recovering. her lack of romantic understanding. her being so soft spoken all the time. gosh there is definitely so much more but I'm just going off the top of my head with points that I particularly related too as well. also I'm sure some of this doesn't make any sense as I'm just rambling and too tired. anyway fantastic video!
I was 10 when I figured something was wrong with me. Well, distancing myself from any social interaction unless it's necessary was the solution I came up with.
Got my cookie, thank you!
To be honest.
I may be the weirdo in the room here…
But sheldon was and is beloved by me.
Yes making him the but of the joke isnt good.
Like at all.
But he is indeed relatable sometimes.
I guess he was my first neurodivergent* rep. and i just latched onto him throu my childhood.
Well , i guess i am not the one to speak here , cause i am in no way diagnosed , i am just walking around , being interested in the theme of autism , cause its interesting and close to the adhd(hello) in a way of people's perception.
And so want to be more understansing.
Allso i find a some of people on the spectrum's strugles (wich i read in comments , so i am not sure.) relatable.
So i wonder even more. Thou when i was re-diagnosed with adhd they said thats all.
But also i have some very specific signs of ocd. Some rituals and though patterns strangers on the internet described are known to me as my own.
So i am unsure of that diagnosis.
Thou i am ipohondric a bit. Or more cyber-hondric;).
In every aspect of my health.
So i am unsure.
I. Love. Izutsume.
She is me.
At least half of me.
The chaos half without the sence of humor.
Order half of my personality is softening me up for the world A LOT.
Thou , i share her way of treating food. And it cannot be softened of hiden away by my compassion.
When she saw that all the food is mixed up , and the meat she wants is in the souce she hates , i FELT THAT.
i think its is amazing that she manage to overcome herself not to starve.
I know that sounds stupid , but i dont know how i would act.
Thou i love that after that she keeps eating mostly just what she wants.
And that Senshi cares for her , and adjusts their diet to feed her properly without force.
Its absurdly wholesome and i love Senshi , and that soon everyone were ok with the way she treats food.
Sometimes you wonder if there is a guide to being human , and if you just missed it.
Also can someone recomend a working defynition of love to someone who seeks it?
I am not on the spectrum , but i am seriously unsure. Seriously. Unsure.
Third.
You may say that mask is either about him masking or , abot unmasking when he transforms.
Both seem correct enough.
Third sentence.
I feel fear. And thats fun and ok.
Hot take: sexism sucks and really sucks for everyone.
It was supposed to be a sarcastic joke , but now i realise
That there are people disagreeing with it somewhere in the world and it sucks even harder.
Really it is one of the things slowly driving every person in the world insane( figuratevy and literaly. It mostly makes people stressed and sad.)
Andits stupidly horrible that it somehow survived.
Please ignore me , i dont think i cant delete all those at this point
you know what's really autistic: Projecting lol
I mean is anyone in the party not autistic? Chillchuck has sensory issues, gets infantilized, and is the type of autistic that is between Kabru and Lioas. He can mask, he does know the social rules but only chooses to do so when he needs to and largely just behaves how he pleases in the moment even though he is capable of reading a situation if he puts in extra energy/effort he isn't willing to expend most of the time.
Marcille is also shown to have issues with different types of food in an autistic way, she's rather strict on following the rules as written even when they don't serve the situation, has some rather black and white ways of thinking at times and while she doesn't miss all social cues she misses a good deal of stuff. She's also hyper focused on something most people consider taboo(My friends with hyper fixations on cannibalism, arson and my old one on human experimentation pop to mind) and she doesn't follow the social norms on that at all. She just also at times suks at reading other autistic people which is something Liaos can do well
I could keep going for like 2000000 years cause this feels like another case of Most of these characters are autistic and it doesn't seem fully intentional… Hey author have you ever taken this fun free online quiz? It's called the RAADS test
In dungeon Meshi, every single character is autistic. All of them. In this world people do not take a class, they have a Special Interest instead and this functions as their class.